My husband and I are in agreement about how to raise our children 98% of the time. But around this time of year, we can’t quite seem to agree on two things. The first is Santa. If the big jolly guy knew how often he was debated in this house, he would be embarrassed! We both agree that the focus on Santa and gifts should NOT be the focus of Christmas. We talk about the true meaning of Christmas, make a birthday cake for Jesus, pray as a family, and try to spend nice quality time together. If we home schooled, we feel that we could shield our children from the knowledge of Santa, at least tone it down a bit. But since they attend school, they hear about him constantly. Hey are told that He is watching, that he will literally come down their chimneys, that the teachers have a special phone number to let Santa know who’s been naughty or nice…and on and on.
Now, as a child, I believed in Santa. I remember the excitement and almost tangible joy in the air around Christmas time. My dad used to call the North Pole so we could listen to the elves working (it was the operator playing Christmas music!) and we would leave cookies out for Santa and carrots out for the reindeer. It was a truly magical time of the year. But then, on the first day of second grade, Sarah Grimes told me there was no such thing as Santa. I was beyond devastated. Devastated that my dreams were crushed, and even more hurt that my parents lied to me.
Phil, being a high school teacher, hears countless stories from kids who were traumatized when they found out Santa wasn’t real, and he doesn’t want our kids to go through that. We have tried to say that Santa is a story, just like Snow White or Hansel & Gretel, but the kids want more details. Andrew in particular asks us outright if Santa is real. We just ask him what he thinks, and play it off as best we can. The parenting part we disagree on is that I think talking about Santa should be encouraged. He represents hope and faith and joy, and I can’t imagine not believing as a child. Phil wants to let them know that Santa doesn’t exist to spare them years of being lied to.
The second Christmastime argument we have is about the kid’s wish list. In the spirit of making dreams come true, I would love to get the kids one thing from their wish list. Unfortunately, this year all the boys want a Nintendo DS. And they are very expensive! I think John-Paul and even Andrew are old enough to enjoy them, but Eamon is too young right now. We recently received gift cards to spend on Christmas gifts for the kids, and we could afford to buy two DS’s with them. My guilty (full-time worker’s) mother’s heart wants to splurge and give them what they want. Remember when you were a kid, and there was a present you wanted so badly? And then you woke up on Christmas morning to find it! Oh the thrill! I would love to do that for my kids. But, Phil thinks we shouldn’t give them what they want because then they will just want the next best thing. He thinks it’s too materialistic of them to want a DS. I don’t want to spoil our kids (except with love) but I also don’t think getting what you want for Christmas will turn a kid “bad”. I do want to point out that I love my husband and really respect his opinions, and in the end I usually find out he was right! But I'm just not there yet ;)
So opinions are wanted! What do you think about spreading the Santa stories and giving kids exactly what they want from their wish lists?
So opinions are wanted! What do you think about spreading the Santa stories and giving kids exactly what they want from their wish lists?
Our daughter is 1.5 this year, so we haven't had to really deal with this yet, but we have a "plan."
ReplyDeleteThus far, Santa will come and we'll leave cookies, but that's it.
(My mom use to leave footprints in the carpet -with flour-, notes from Santa, notes from the reindeer- the whole 9 yards and then some!)
One thing Santa will not do, however, is leave the big gifts. I think kids can have unrealistic requests and the poor parents have such guilt about not being able to give the gift (or break the bank to do so) and then not being able to explain it when their friends maybe DO get that gift!
So we've decided two things- Santa will bring a few small items and stocking stuffers, but the big gifts will come from mom and dad on the epiphany. I always hated how quickly Christmas was over, especially since we kept celebrating it at Church! But that way the kids will (hopefully) understand when they don't get their hugely expensive gifts.
AS far as the DS- if you have the money this year, why not? Maybe explain that you were very blessed this year!
Hope that helps and sorry for the essay!
Okay, I'm the odd one out in most of these conversations because I'm one of the "Santa-haters". Not really, but I don't believe in telling your children Santa is real. I don't think you need to lie to your children for them to have a wonderful Christmas. We won't be telling our children Santa is real. We will tell the story of St. Nicholas and how Santa cam from that. But if my kid tells your kid Santa isn't real, don't hate on me. We both as parents made our own decisions.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the DS goes, I don't think getting them the DS will spoil them and make them materialistic. Being materialistic is a way of life. As kids many times we were fortunate enough to have money and get the big things we wanted, but I'm as far from materialistic as you can get. It's about how you raise your kids and teach them to appreciate what they do get.
We always celebrated the life of St. Nicholas, even as kids ourselves. So for us, it was not Santa, it was St.Nick leaving the gifts. When the kids can understand, it becomes the parents' generosity in imitation of the charity of this marvelous bishop. If we believe in the Communion of Saints, it is the simple imitation of the life of someone in heaven.
ReplyDeleteI am a Santa lover.
ReplyDeleteI feel that you can have both Jesus and Santa and still have well rounded children who believe in what Christmas is about. I love being Catholic and it means a lot to me, but there are some secular things that just aren't all bad. Santa, encourages good behavior and rewards for good behavior. Isn't that what the Church teaches too?
When we get pregnant and enter the fold of parenting Santa will bring things on Christmas morning but the "most wanted" items will come from us on Christmas Eve.
On a different note, having a brother 8 years younger than me made Santa that much more meaningful. Even though I knew the truth we "believed" and played along so Peter wouldn't lose that same joy we had. In a way, we got to be Santa along with our parents. There was never any betrayal, just one year I went from total belief to encouraging the belief. Maybe at some point your big boys will feel the same way for their new sibling and any extra Martins that come along. =)
I had to laugh when I saw this because my husband and I have a hard time agreeing on the Santa issue as well. He wants all the magic surrounding Christmas for our children. He had wonderful experiences growing up with the magic of Christmas and his parents broke the news gently to him when he was old enough and he participated in making the magic for his younger siblings.
ReplyDeleteI, however, did not find out so gently. I have few memories from my childhood (I was blessed/cursed with a poor memory) but one I do remember very well is walking into Shopko with my mom and sister, heading towards the Lay-away counter when my mom said, "You know there is no santa, right?" I was devestated, which is probably why I am less inclined to jump in with both feet on the issue. Our kids are still young enough that we have a year or so to cement whatever way we decide.
On St. Nicholas's feast day, I shared with my girls his story and leaned heavily on the fact that he gave gifts annonymously - like when we donate gifts for the advent tree at church. I'm hoping as they get older to make it so that when a gift says "Santa" it means we don't know who it is from. So they are welcome to give each other gifts annonymously in the name of "Santa". Does that make sense?
Santa brings family gifts (games, movies, etc) to our house and some small things for our stockings.
In my family, we just got what we were given and usually it was wasn't what we wanted and never cared for the present. In my hub's family, everybody told each other what they wanted and everybody got at least one thing they really desired. I like my hub's family Christmas style better. If you get what you want at Christmas, it feels like someone is actually listening to you and understands why something so little or so big is so important. When I got something I didn't care for or want then it usually "got lost" or just passed off to the side after a while. I wouldn't get two new. ds. I would get one and label it that Santa wants the whole family to share it. It's less expensive and provides a good oppertunity for kids to share something really importnant so they should all work to keep it in good working condition and not drop it etc. Perhaps for the Santa situation you could work in that St. Nickolas was a real person and is in Heaven keeping an eye on us like the other saints. Good luck!
ReplyDeleteNow, just to start--the funny thing is that my oldest was petrified of the whole Santa thing. That this man was coming into our house!! So... we started off early with Santa as a fun thing, but we've never really pushed it. We do go see Santa at the mall, but my 3 boys (ages 10, 8, and 5)know that Santa isn't real. It is just a fun silly thing. We have never gone to great lengths to wrap presents in different paper or anything like that. We do leave milk and cookies and carrots.
ReplyDeleteWhen my kids have asked me if Santa is real---yes, he WAS real. St. Nicholas was real. And it is a great opportunity to talk about someone who wanted to be kind and good.
My kids do have wish lists. But we're always very realistic. Item A is too expensive so unless you want to chip in or ask for money instead of a gift, etc. This works for the 10 and 8 yr old. They get that. The 5 yr old, not so much. But he does get that something isn't reasonable and to give other options. And we always say, you can ASK for a gift, but you may not DEMAND. And ASKing does not guarantee you're going to get it. I do think this is one of the hard lessons of a large family that their friends don't experience!
So... I don't think there is anything wrong with Santa in the sense of reasonable childhood fantasy. I don't think it should all be about Santa either. It is Christ's birthday and we have to keep that in perspective. I also don't think that it is wrong for your kids to hope for big things--they all do! That's part of being a kid! But I also don't think it is unreasonable to keep up an on-going dialogue about what is realistic. WHEW!!
Good luck. And Merry Christmas! :)
I'm kind of in between on Santa. Robby just found out who he was the other day. He's only 2.5 so he doesn't get it. I just said Santa was no big deal and if he was good maybe he would get a present from him. Then we talked about how santas real name was saint nick.
ReplyDeleteAnd dude If someone gave you a gift card for the kids and you could afford a ds I say go for it! Or maybe get one ds for them to share and then they aren't getting totally spoiled. I don't know-but good deal with the gift card!
http://thecatholicspirit.com/featured/g-k-chestertons-take-on-santa-claus-revisited/
ReplyDeleteColleen check this article out!
Please do not feel the need to publish this Colleen. I've been meaning to e mail you but for some darn reason it never works when I try to do it through that "thunk" thing you have.
ReplyDeleteFirst regarding your post and staying home and etc. I'm so so sorry that you are having to deal with all that stress and frustration. Keith and I struggle big time financially and I have no answers for you in that area except that it is stressful and especially when you are open to life and want to be a stay at home mom.
The most important thing is that you recognize the importance of a mother being home and that your and Phil's hope is that ability either full time or part time. You both sound like a beautiful couple and family. We all have our crosses and never think you are alone in that.
Okay, the other thing I've been meaning to say is congratulations and holy toledo! God's plan is never my plan (I love planning) :-) I'm so happy you guys are having another baby. Just keep this in mind throughout the next months. The devil hates life and loves destruction. With the money issues going on with you and job and new baby the devil will use anything to try and take away the joy and glory to God that a new life brings, so always keep that in your minds when you and Phil are stressed out. :-)
Okay, Santa-I don't' know what it is but we have never had an issue with this and almost everyone I know does.
This is what we do:
We tell the boys that Santa Claus is Saint Nicholas (Santa-Saint Claus-Nicholas) and they know the story of Saint Nicholas. We have told them that they are one in the same...because, well, they are. They know he (the saint) is real and is in heaven. Now, they also know that the Santa Claus they see in the Mall or wherever is a guy dressed as Saint Nicholas. The boys get gifts from Saint Nicholas/Santa Claus on the Feast of Saint Nicholas and then Christmas morning they may get something else from him; it kind of depends on the year I guess because we give ourselves (meaning Keith, I and the boys) a family gift each year Christmas morning so sometimes along with that there may be a gift from Saint Nicholas/Santa Clause.
That's it. We have never had any issues; the boys don't seem dramatized or missing on the excitement. We leave cookies for him. We talk about the north pole and elves and rudolph and all that stuff. Joseph who is 6 now, he's pretty sharp, so he'll say things like, "well, elves aren't real, but we're going to pretend they are" and then he and his brother's create a whole toy shop here in the living room...though my 4 or 2 year old seem to think elves are real. Keith adn I really don't address it unless we see some problem...does this make sense?
Okay :-) I know this was long. I'm sorry I can't figure out how to e mail you. I've been meaning to comment on posts, but have been just crazy busy cleaning through my house and we have literally been passing around colds, coughs and crud since November 11th. 2 boys have fevers today in fact. I usually love winter, but this is just ridiculous. God Bless your family! Sandra-
We are Santa people, I guess. To be honest, growing up I never knew there were people who didn't believe in Santa.
ReplyDeleteMy parents did not have a lot of money, so even though we "believed" in Santa, it was not a huge theatrial production every year. We focused on the true meaning of Christmas, always made Mass our focus and priority, talked about Jesus' birthday, just as you do. I never disconnected Christmas from Jesus -- my parents refused to use the abbreviation X-mas, etc.
I remember hearing kids at school say there was no Santa, but I ignored them until I gradually came to the realization on my own. I did not feel betrayed or traumatized and I think that's because my parents always focused so much on Christ.
I enjoyed perpetuating the fun for my younger siblings until they too stopped believing in Santa. My parents always said that once one of us asked if Santa was "real" that's when they would explain everything. They explained that Santa as a person was not real, but the spirit of love and generosity that he respresents is very real.
(We also celebrated St. Nicholas Day and focused on him as a REAL person.)
With our kids we have done the same. We do not encourage Christmas Wish Lists at all. Our kids don't write them out and they don't write letters to Santa either. They know that Santa brings them one gift and one gift only, and that that gift has to be approved by mom and dad. They know that everything else comes from us, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. We also make sure they focus on giving -- we take them shopping for small things to give each other and their grandparents.
As far as the DS games are concerned, as long as you and Phil are in agreement and you have the money, I think the boys would not be forever ruined by them. Francie is getting a DS this year, but no one else is getting as big an item money-wise. The kids know they are not in a competition, and, to be honest, Francie knows we expect her to be generous with her gift toward her siblings (as far as letting them watch her, not gloating, etc.)
Whoa, sorry! I'm done now ;)
I think you have a good outlook on Santa... you first and foremost focus on Christ and you then use Santa as a way to accentuate the message of Jesus. Sure, there are stories of kids being traumatized by the "lies" of Santa, but what about those kids who are tramatized by not being able to use their imagination and missing out on those fun childhood memories? Sure, I was super upset when I learned there was no Santa, but I'm not damaged too badly. :-)
ReplyDeleteWhat an interesting topic and I'm loving reading the comments.
ReplyDeleteSanta is talked about in our house, but never has become a huge topic. We do emphasize that St. Nicholas is the man who became later known as Santa. My kids do occasionally ask about him and details about him, but never hang on those details or wonder a whole lot. We never planned how we were going to work the whole Santa thing, but fell into it instead. My kids have never sat on Santa's lap or written a letter to him. They've never waited up for him or thought they've 'seen' him.
I'm not sure how long we'll continue with his tradition, but for now it works. As for me, I was slightly devasted when I found out about Santa (I think I was in like 5th grade!!). Not that it was a big deal inmy family, but I think back then I was the same as I am now, in awe and wonder at the season of Christmas. So yes, when a classmate told me about it at school, I was shocked and in unbelief. That was the same year my parents told us. Up until then, I never wondered or questioned. I just believed.
On the gifts, I hear you. Last year we declared that Santa would only bring 3 gifts. If 3 gifts were good enough for baby Jesus, it was certainly enough for them. However, upon reminding them of that this year they've already come up with "but last year we got Wii from Santa and that was a BIG gift, so that's why we only got three". So, now I sit here this year feeling like the gifts are meager offerings and in no way are near what we spent last year. But should I buy more gifts just to reach a certain dollar amount and have more stuff? I don't think so. But then, I hate to disappoint. UGH.
With one week left to go I'm reassessing what I've bought and feeling like I need to rush off and get more. Thankfully, that's where Reed comes in and reminds me that what they get is enough. They will be happy with enough.
Okay, so my comment is probably not helpful. Just had to throw it out there though. Good luck. I know you and Phil are wonderful parents and will do what's best for your kids :)
What an interesting topic and I'm loving reading the comments.
ReplyDeleteSanta is talked about in our house, but never has become a huge topic. We do emphasize that St. Nicholas is the man who became later known as Santa. My kids do occasionally ask about him and details about him, but never hang on those details or wonder a whole lot. We never planned how we were going to work the whole Santa thing, but fell into it instead. My kids have never sat on Santa's lap or written a letter to him. They've never waited up for him or thought they've 'seen' him.
I'm not sure how long we'll continue with his tradition, but for now it works. As for me, I was slightly devasted when I found out about Santa (I think I was in like 5th grade!!). Not that it was a big deal inmy family, but I think back then I was the same as I am now, in awe and wonder at the season of Christmas. So yes, when a classmate told me about it at school, I was shocked and in unbelief. That was the same year my parents told us. Up until then, I never wondered or questioned. I just believed.
On the gifts, I hear you. Last year we declared that Santa would only bring 3 gifts. If 3 gifts were good enough for baby Jesus, it was certainly enough for them. However, upon reminding them of that this year they've already come up with "but last year we got Wii from Santa and that was a BIG gift, so that's why we only got three". So, now I sit here this year feeling like the gifts are meager offerings and in no way are near what we spent last year. But should I buy more gifts just to reach a certain dollar amount and have more stuff? I don't think so. But then, I hate to disappoint. UGH.
With one week left to go I'm reassessing what I've bought and feeling like I need to rush off and get more. Thankfully, that's where Reed comes in and reminds me that what they get is enough. They will be happy with enough.
Okay, so my comment is probably not helpful. Just had to throw it out there though. Good luck. I know you and Phil are wonderful parents and will do what's best for your kids :)
What??
ReplyDeleteThere is no Santa? I don't like Sarah Grimes!!!!!!
The whole Santa story is a debate among different people. Personally, I think that it adds to the magic of Christmas. And this can only be done when kids are little...once they are done with Santa, Christmas is focused on the 'true meaning' and family time. I wanted my kids to believe that for as long as I could.
I can't believe any teenager is traumatized over learning the truth as a kid...if that traumatized them, how will they make it in the real world??? :0
If you can get the kids the gift that they want most, do it. They will not turn out to be bad kids by getting a 'dream' gift...and gifts for all kids don't have to be equal. That is not fair for the older ones. My girls have had a DS for 4 years...and they still use them!
My two cents. :)
well.. if i HAD kids.. i would let them believe in santa.. i just wouldn't go into HUGE extravagant stories about him...!
ReplyDeleteas for the presents... aaaah! a sweet Christmas won't hurt anyone- will it??
have a fabulous wkend.. hope you are doing well!!!
i have no kids so obviously i have little experience with this. BUT i liked how my parents did things. We were only allowed to ask for 3 things but nothing crazy big. I remember the kids in school who would brag about asking santa for 20 things, i remember thinking they were greedy and sounded like spoiled brats. i mean, if santa has to bring toys to everyone, and you think you're that important that he is going to bring you over 20 toys...brats!!!
ReplyDeletei remember finding out the truth about santa, sure i was upset, i cried. But i never once felt that my parents lied to me or felt any anger whatsoever towards them. Now being an adult i look back on Christmas mornings from my childhood and i remember that feeling of seeing Santa had come. I can't describe it, but it was definitely one of the best feelings i've experienced , so magical and just sheer joy and excitement. I'm glad i had that opportunity, I'm so thankful! Sure, finding out about Santa sucked, but having those 9 years of believing FARRRRR outweighed the disappointment of learning the truth, for me anyway.
If my parents never gave me the chance to believe in Santa THAT would be upsetting and that is something that i would hold against them and probably still feel hurt about it til this day.
As far as the lying thing goes, when your child says they want to be president or a famous baseball player do you tell them it's a great goal? or do you tell them it's probably not going to happen and they shouldn't get their hopes up? Sure, that's different from Santa, but isn't it the same principle?
We do something similar to what Sandra does. Santa is St Nick. The boys know that the Santa in the mall is not the real Santa, but someone who pretends to be St Nick. We usually say that the man in the mall "helps out St Nick" and will tell him what you want for Christmas. Our tradition is that the boys leave their christmas list for St Nick and he picks it up on his Feast Day.
ReplyDeleteWe go simple with presents and we have been blessed that the boys have never asked for any expensive gifts. We do try to get the boys the items on their list so the day is special. But, again, they have never asked for anything very expensive. I am, in general, against, video games, Nintendos, so I am not sure what I would do if the boys asked for anything like that. A friend of mine who has 12 kids has strict rules on at what age her kids can get or buy different items like that. I like her approoach to it.
We're not doing Santa. I just don't see the need and neither does my husband. No St. Nick... none of it. We put up stockings on Christmas Eve and then "some time" before Christmas morning everyone has to *sneak* each others' gifts into the appropriate stocking. We mention how, in doing this, we are being like St. Nicholas who snuck gifts into the stockings of the poor. But we don't say that St. Nicholas is doing the gift-giving. It's just that... I don't see how saying that helps anything. And doing it this way preserves the element of surprise and expectation just fine. So... this is what works for us!
ReplyDeleteRe: the big gifts... I personally would say that none of the gifts are going to cost over a certain amount. Perhaps you could then tell your kids that if they work hard and earn some $$ they can make up the difference and together ya'll can buy what they want at a later time. Just an idea. But I think I'm a bit of a part pooper, so take it or leave it!!
We have always done "the wiseman plan" at our home. The kids receive 3 gifts under the tree from St. Nicholas and 3 as well wrapped from mom and dad. Over the years we would hear how it was not fair b/c so-n-so at school got more than 3 and we reminded them that we were on the wise man plan! Now as teen and pre teens, the older ones only ask for 1 or 2 gifts... even Nora keeps that list little. It is worth a try! Flynn and I went back and forth on the myth of Santa and decided if we raised our kids right, a little myth (lie!) wouldn't hurt! You guys are wonderful parents and I think they are okay believing! We really push the story of St. Nicholas and the joy of GIVING at Christmas!
ReplyDeleteAnd by the way the 3 gifts from mom and dad are usually clothes, new school shoes, sheets, etc... not toys and they still get excited by those gifts!
As to DS or big gifts, and I can say that as ours have gotten older the gifts naturally do get bigger, clothes do cost more.... BUT we accomodate by smaller other gifts, obviously if the DS is one of the 3 gifts, the other 2 are small/inexpensive!
Hope your worrying goes away! Enjoy the holiday with the little ones! They grow way too fast! Merry Merry Christmas!
I am late to this...didn't read everyone's responses. But, I think last year I posted on this on your blog. Yes we believe in Santa here and yes we perpetuate the myth big time.
ReplyDeleteas far as the big gifts...I personally don't think they need it. BUT my mom buys them what they want so she overrides my wishes and doesn't really care what I think and says its her right as a gma to spoil them. So she does. She spends wayyyy too much on them. They are getting expensive things from her this year.
I think eamon is too young for a DS. I think your oldest is ok not sure on the middle one. They were on sale for 89 on Black Friday.
Now, my husband takes presents to the extreme. He doesn't believe the kids need any at all! he will compromise and get them one thing each though from santa. He thinks its important to believe in santa as do I but is not into the materialism of it all.
If I had my wish my kids would only get 3 SMALL 20 dollars or less toys each. I think 3 since Jesus only got 3. But, like I said...my mom spoils them so they get more than 3.
I could've written this. The Santa thing is getting tricky in this house. I'm pretty sure Sierra {8 years old} only still truly believes because she is homeschooled. Otherwise I'm sure she'd have found out by now. She asks more and more questions each year, and I try to play it off too: "What do you think? and "Santa is an 'idea'" Ay yi yi. So tough.
ReplyDeleteAs for the DS. I don't know. It's obviously up to you, but I have to say that I totally get what you're saying about wanting a particular items SO badly, and then you find it under the tree, and OH! How wonderful. And I must agree, I don't think that giving a child something that they truly long for {every once in awhile, not all the time} will not turn them greedy.
That's all :)