I had a lovely reader (hi Jennifer!) notice that JP is in his senior year of college which is also his 3rd year of college, and said:
I would love to hear more about how he did it and how it is going doing it like that. Do you think your other kids will try to do the same?
So how did JP graduate high school at age 18 and how will he graduate from college at age 21?
Short answer - he's a smarty pants. He went through his whole childhood with a book in hand:
Long answer - in high school, JP completed seven AP courses, three in his Junior year and four in his Senior year. AP "Advanced Placement" courses are college-level courses taught in high school. When I was in high school, we did not have AP classes, but we had Honors classes and then students had the option to take the AP Exam at the end of the year. At our Catholic high school, if you take an AP class, you automatically take the AP Exam at the end of the course (for a fee of $97). If you score well on the AP Exam then colleges will give you college credit for that class, and you don't have to take it in college.
This part gets tricky because even a top score on an AP Exam may not translate into college credit depending on the college "rules". For example, JP got a 4 on the AP Bio Exam (top score is a 5) and if he went to Providence College as a biology major, they would have made him take all of his biology classes and labs no matter how well he did on the AP Exam. Franciscan University however, gave him credit for two Biology classes based on his score and that allowed him to start in Bio 201 and not Bio 101, which saved a whole year of Bio classes.
So you basically have to learn the colleges rules on AP scores and credits and factor that into your college decision. It's hard also because you end up taking most AP exams senior year, and not getting your scores until July and by then you've already decided on a college and just have to hope it all works out.
We feel like what's the point of taking a college course in high school, doing really well on the exam, and then NOT getting college credit for it? Like the whole point of pushing oneself to take the AP course is to get the college credit and thereby shorten the amount of time spent in college, because you already learned it in high school. So finding a college that feels the same way is important to us.
JP also applied for, and was selected to be part of a grant that allowed about 20 high school students to take five Cyber Security classes at a local college, and have a summer internship. He did this over his Sophomore/Junior years of high school and was able to transfer four of those course credits to Franciscan as electives.
When we realized all of the credits he had between his AP Exams and his Cybersecurity classes, he figured out with his college advisor that he could graduate in three years, including spending one of those semesters studying in Austria where they have no science classes, as long as he took a grueling schedule for those other 2.5 years and completed one Biology course plus Lab over the summer.
The CONS
JP has truly hard a very difficult course load. He had to take Physics as a Freshman as well as a lot of other upper level classes in order to fit in all of his major requirements and a semester in Austria. He said he really learned how to study that year. JP started dating a girl and making friends with other freshman who are now going to have another year on campus after he graduates. He didn't work at all on campus because of his workload, so money is always tight until he can make enough over breaks. And finally, his GPA is lower than it should be because all of those AP credits and transfer credits (he got all A's) only translate into satisfying credits and not counting towards his GPA.
The PROS
Obviously the biggest plus of finishing college faster than four years is the tuition savings. JP also gets to move on to the next step sooner than his classmates, and since his future involves years of schooling, this puts him on a trajectory to start earning money in his career a year sooner. It also looks impressive on a medical school application (we hope) to accomplish all he did in a short time. I believe JP matured and became a more serious student, focused on his future goals by doing it this way as well.
So, Was it Worth It?
Current JP would say no. He had a really difficult course load, would love to stay at Franciscan for another year, and will miss his friends when he graduates and they stay on campus. Future JP will be grateful that he saved a whole year of tuition and has a gap year to work in patient care and study for his MCATS before applying to medical and/or PA schools. Taking a year to work and gain experience seems to be the trend that college graduates have to follow before applying to these schools nowadays.
Will Our Other Kids Do the Same?
Andrew will be at college for four years. He did not take as many AP classes, so he only got 12 college credits for the ones he took. He is also not 100% sure of his major (currently Biology) and I could see him switching at some point, like his mother did. He also wants to travel abroad to Austria and was the lucky recipient of some big scholarships that make his four years at Franciscan very affordable! Eamon and Maggie are the type of students that could probably at least skip a semester with their AP course loads, but we shall see. JP did not make it look like an easy way to go through college, so I think they are a bit scared to try to finish in 3 years. And the little boys are just too little to even think about college right now. We hope at least one of them foregoes the whole college route and becomes an electrician or mechanic or plumber instead...our family could use one of those :)
This was so interesting to read. Thanks for sharing the inside story on all this. For what it's worth, my husband did a traditional 4 year business degree, but has learned all the trades on the job from youtube and his own mistakes. Each state has different license requirements for these jobs and some it's only a paper test. So you can have both the great enriching Catholic college experience and learn the practical skills as well.
ReplyDeleteA business degree is so versatile, that's awesome your husband is self taught! I know of two Catholic colleges that are now combining degrees with hands-on work, kind of like a vocational college and I think that's an awesome track for kids who know that's what they want to do.
DeleteAP thoughts : Some schools which do not take AP credits, or only in a limited way, DO use the fact that the student took the classes as part of the admissions criteria. (Looking at you, ND And Princeton!) So, it can help even if you don't get to apply the credit to graduation or distribution requirement.
ReplyDeleteHowever, if the student has an option, taking a dual credit course at a community college might work better as a transfer - again, YMMV.
I did have one daughter who entered school as almost a sophomore as an engineering major - it was great as it allowed her to take a semester long externship in her field - which really helped boost her resume - and to add on the honors program. She needed classes outside her major of study, which with an engineering major, there's usually little room for fun. So the AP credits gave her the luxury of flexibility. She did graduate in 4 years.
My daughter who just started college has a similar situation, with almost a full year of credits. (8 AP's - though I don't think they took all of them.) The only regret she has so far is that being in more advanced classes means she is not with mostly freshmen in her classes, and it can be a little lonely. ( Her dorm is also not just freshmen (her floor has 3 junior girls in singles and a double with sophomore boys? I think) so some of the socializing she expected is not there.)) She'll make it work eventually - it's just the second week of classes - but it is a small con. She is thinking about graduating in the three years, though with current scholarships she should be fine to stay 4.
Another daughter did the gap year after graduation - 2 years - to get the experience she needed for those med school applications. She did a year in a research lab in Boston, and then a year of being a scribe elsewhere - she needed the clinical hours. Taking AP classes and having to work in high school/college meant volunteering in the medical field wasn't possible. (Doing research in a top hospital in the country wasn't enough . ) It certainly gave her time to study for those MCATS! I hope JP finds a great position top fill his year and that he gets into an amazing school of his choice.
So many ways to get it done! My brother and sister who are doctors just graduated from college and went straight to med school, but I feel like med schools are looking for more experience first which just delays everything. I would love if he got into UMass Medical (so good, so cheap) but I'm not sure if his gpa will allow it. He might pick PA school just based on the financial cost and ability to start making money sooner.
DeleteTake this for what its worth (a stranger’s opinion on the internet) but my husband is a doctor and my advice would be… DO NOT BECOME A DOCTOR! PA or PT would be a much better route for someone wanting both to have a fulfilling career as well as life outside of work. And, as you say- less debt, get to start working sooner, and for a PA at least, the flexibility to explore around and find the right specialty without having to redo a residency or something like that!
DeleteNote that some of my kids did not have the chance to take many AP classes, due to the HS they attended, and they are not suffering at the college level. So AP's aren't necessary. Some high schools are pushing younger students like sophomores to take AP's to boost their numbers, and I think it's a disservice to most students. To handle the AP classes, there is a mental maturity a student needs, and many freshman and sophomores won't have developed it it yet. As you can see, I have mixed feelings about AP classes!
ReplyDeleteYes! I work for a public school district that offers AP classes to freshman and I think that's kinda crazy. If freshman in high school can take college level course, then let's just get rid of high school ;)
DeleteI disagree, I am 45 so not young at all and even I took AP classes freshman sophomore junior and senior year of high school at a Jesuit school in Chicago. After 9 years of being bored in a sweet but not challenging catholic elementary school my favorite classes were my AP classes AND I could space them out really well which I couldn’t do if I only had them junior and senior years, Setting so much credit at Northwestern university allowed me to learn multiple languages study abroad 3 times and not be held back by requirements.
DeleteIt's interesting to read your perspective on this and I value seeing his too. Cost savings, absolutely so good!! But I graduated a semester early and I often cite that as the one thing I'd go back and redo. I had a few more months of work before grad school but I missed out on a lot of social things with my friends because of it. All of the college friends I am still in contact with are people who were upperclassmen to me for better or worse. (Probably partially to blame that I married one of those upperclassmen.) I just think, for me personally, that I could have taken an additional semester of some fun electives that I will never have the chance to learn about again and socialized more. I was the goody two shows who didn't go out and did a lot of studying in order to graduate early. I even skipped things like the campus dances and foam parties. I am so glad JP was able to make it all work though!! He definitely won't regret saving money with more school ahead.
ReplyDeleteHonestly being in his environment for another year would be great for him, but alas his bank account won't allow it! He'll go back and visit a lot during what should have been his senior year, and I think he will regret it but i also think it's the best choice for him. So hard to know!
DeleteThis is such a complicated subject...and I don't think there are "right" answers. I had three kids go through school and they did three different things! Interestingly, the one with the most AP's graduated in four years, while the other two finished in three and a half! So many things can intervene such as major changes, internship opportunities, jobs, and sports. I think one of the benefits of AP classes, though, is that you are challenged and typically with similarly motivated students. I just wish we could do something about the sky-rocketing cost of college!
ReplyDeleteI agree, no one right way and the cost!!
DeleteThank you sooooooooo much for answering my question ;-) This was so good to read and addressed many of my questions as I homeschool a child who is college bound. We have the flexibility to take CLEPs and APs but I know it is a mixed bag to graduate early. I really appreciate reading about your son's experience as well as the comments from other parents.
ReplyDeleteI feel like it would be fine if he did four years, except he would need to take out a loan, so that's really the biggest point of doing it in three. Happy to share our experience, even though we are just newbies at this college thing!
DeleteMy daughter will graduate high school with an AA. We homeschool so don't have access to AP but she started earning college credits in ninth grade through CLEP exams (same company) and then dual enrolled in the community college (for free in our state!). So she'll only have two years in college. I worry that it cuts her "college experience" so short and that she has to jump right into her upper level classes but then again, we can't afford to put ten kids through college so the savings in tuition/housing/meal plans is huge. Plus it enables her to go to graduate school if she wants in the same amount of time a Bachelor's would have taken.
ReplyDeleteThe expense of college is the number one decision-maker for us too, I can't even imagine having to do it for ten - you're my hero! And I think if they are not at a wonderful college having great experiences (like if one of my kids lived at home and commuted to a state school) I wouldn't mind cutting their college experience short.
DeleteJP is an impressive guy. Ed had a lot of AP credit. I don't remember what counted at his school and what didn't. He stayed for four years and I think he would've been really bummed to miss that last year. It was hard for him to leave campus for a semester to study abroad, but looking back he was thrilled that he fit that in. Mini got a 4 on her AP Calc exam and ND would only take a 5. That stunk. I like the AP credit because even if you aren't going to graduate in 3 years, if the credit counts you have more wiggle room to take other classes. It is super annoying that you don't know what scores will count until you've already chosen your college. I look forward to seeing what JP does in the future - his future is so bright.
ReplyDeleteThat's so crazy they wouldn't take a 4. JP got mostly 4s and 5s but got a 3 on AP Chem and they even took that!
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