Wednesday, January 25, 2023

Ask Me Anything: Schooling Questions and College Decisions

Ellen asks: Do you wish you had made a different decision about what to study at school?  I love Franciscan University of Steubenville and want to encourage my kids to go there but the amount of debt kids come away with is scary.

Erin asks: Can you please give some tips on how to start the post high school/college process?  I have no idea where to begin and I have two high schoolers.

mbmom11 asks: Would you ever send your kids to public school?

Thank you for the questions, ladies!  We always knew we wanted our kids to go to good Catholic schools.  Phil and I both went to a mix of Catholic schools and public schools (and Phil homeschooled for middle school) and then we went to a very Catholic college (Franciscan University of Steubenville) where we met on the Austrian campus.  Homeschooling our kids was never an option for us because we both had to work to make ends meet.  Phil is a high school Theology teacher and gets tuition abatement for our kids because of how long he's been there.  I also worked in Catholic schools in various accounting roles to get the rest of the tuition abatement necessary.  We chose to take lower paying jobs in Catholic schools because we knew the benefit of having our kids tuition covered was HUGE.  

Preschool through 12th grade

Two years ago, I left my job at the Catholic high school as Business Manager and took a job in the public school as the District Accountant.  Seeing the issues that happen in the public schools totally reinforces our decision to send our kids to Catholic schools.  But I know how very lucky we are to have this option and to have jobs that provide tuition as a benefit.  If we did not have tuition covered, we would definitely have to put our kids in public schools as the cost of Catholic high school is $12,400 per student and Catholic elementary school is $4300 per student.  This year alone our cost would total $50,100 for our youngest six kids and our oldest isn't even included in that since he's in college.  Of course, the schools provide scholarships and financial aid and we probably would never have to pay that much, but even half of that amount would be an impossible ask.

OK, now for some college talk.

{With the caveat that I have only sent one child to college with my second applying currently}

After sacrificing and working hard to send our kids to Catholic schools from age 3 through 18, we of course want them to continue with a Catholic education in college.  We can't imagine sending them out at the incredibly vulnerable ages of 18-22 to a school that pushes agendas we don't agree with and potentially have our kids lose their faith.  We take our role and vow to raise them in the faith very seriously, and if we are helping to pay for their education then we need it to be helping them not hurting them.  This is a touchy and personal subject and I don't want to make anybody upset, so I'm just telling our position.  

Attending Franciscan was an amazing college experience.  Phil and I got to live away from home, make friends from all over the world (seriously most of my friends were the international students as I was paired up with a roommate from the Philippines and then roomed with a friend from the Caribbean) and felt comfortable to be surrounded by fun, faith-filled professors and students.  We also got to study abroad and live in an old monastery being taught by American professors while traveling around Europe every weekend.  I mean, c'mon.  When our oldest son chose to attend Franciscan, we were so excited for him and felt very comfortable letting him go and helping him pay for it.  

I think the cost of college is CRAZY and the Catholic schools around here are about $80,000 per year.  Franciscan starts around $40,000 so it already feels like such a good deal.  JP was able to get an awesome academic scholarship, an alumni scholarship and financial aid so that he has to pay $13,000 per year.  That's basically the cost of sending a kid to our Catholic high school, and JP not only attends college for that price, but also lives on campus, has a generous meal plan, access to all the amenities and events, etc.  We make JP pay half and we pay half for his first two years, until we need to start paying for Andrew's first two years and so on.  JP's only loans will be the federal loans which will total less than $20,000 for his college years.  He took AP courses in high school and a few college courses  and is able to graduate in 3 years if everything stays on track, which saves a bunch of tuition as well.  We feel that after being faithfully formed for all of college, he will be able to go out into the world confident and knowledgeable enough to attend grad school or med school anywhere.  And he's on his own financially for that stage.

Andrew has applied to seven colleges, and gotten into five so far and is waiting to hear from the other two.  His financial aid packages are coming in high because we will have two in college next year.  This helps!  Andrew is a lot quieter about where he wants to go and although we love Franciscan, we will not force him to attend :)  He has applied to six Catholic schools and one state school where he would commute if he went that route.  This is our backup plan in case he can not afford a Catholic college tuition - just live at home and attend classes nearby.  We would hate for him to miss having a real college experience, studying abroad and getting some freedom, but we have to be practical at the same time!  He can always transfer to another college after a year or two which will reduce expenses as well.  If any of our kids showed interest in a trade, we would definitely encourage that route, especially with programs like St. Joseph the Worker or Harmel Academy but so far no takers.

To answer the question of if I wish *I* would have studied something different - I don't think so.   I started as a Biology major, intending to become a doctor like two of my older siblings, but switched after one semester!  I stayed at Franciscan for five years and got my Accounting degree and my MBA, which gave me a broad background for a lot of potential jobs.  I always hoped to have a big family, and I knew accounting provided many opportunities to work part-time or full-time depending on what the family would need. 

Now do we wish that *Phil* had studied something different - 100% yes and I say that with his approval.  Phil graduated with his Theology degree from Franciscan and then went to Providence College for his Masters in Religious Studies, and then got his second Masters in Educational Leadership from the University of Dayton.  He had hoped to become a college professor and teach Theology, but once we got married and the babies started coming we knew completing a PhD program was out of the question for him.  Too many years of school and too many years of not being able to provide for the family during that time.  Wanting to be a teacher with a Theology degree really means you can only teach at a Catholic elementary or high school so your options are limited and the pay is low.  However, he is amazing in this role and has been very happy teaching high school for 20 years, being Department Chair for most of that time, and also being the Director of Religious Ed at our parish.  With his Masters in Educational Leadership, he can become an Administrator and has been looking into that route more recently, so we'll see what happens there.  If he could go back in time, he thinks he might have enjoyed counselling and I could totally see him as a lawyer with the way he likes to debate with his students :)

As far as what you can do to help the college process while your kids are still in high school....there's not too much?  Obviously getting good grades is important, and having them challenge themselves to take the hardest course they can get good grades in is important.  Take the AP course if you can get an A or B but take the college prep course if you can't.  I have found that kids get into colleges based on their academics, but then get scholarships based on their leadership skills, extracurriculars and financial need.  So being Class President might not get them into a college per se, but can write about that leadership opportunity for scholarships.  It all adds up!  Volunteer hours, sports awards, leadership experience, taking outside classes or certifications (JP became an EMT his senior year which got him a medical scholarship) seem to be what scholarship applications want.  Oh!  You can start taking your kids on college visits, even informally just walk around a campus to get them to start thinking about what they want or don't want.  So far my oldest boys realized they did not want a city school after touring a couple in Boston and Providence, but some kids love that scene.  Have them get a job as soon as possible so they can start making money for college.  There's a limited number of summers to earn between when they can get a work permit and when they leave for college!

I think the financials will always work out, so have faith in that.  You can always ask for more aid (and use other college packages to negotiate with the college you want) or more work opportunities.  For example, JP found out their was a Leadership Scholarship that requires him to take a weekly class and do certain activities in return for an additional $2000 per year.  That worked out great because it replaced a $2000 scholarship from an outside source that was only good for his first year.  And even though I hate debt, there are some things that are worth it.  A wonderful college experience where you get to grow in your faith and learn in a safe environment and make awesome friends (and maybe meet your spouse!) is worth the debt to me.  People will happily go into debt for a big house or a new car or a fancy vacation or an extravagant wedding, but I would rather my kids go into debt for an educational experience that will set them up for life.  It's an investment into their future self and the whole point of it is to get the good job that pays off the debt as quickly as possible.  Phil and I struggled and sacrificed to pay off our college and grad school debt but we would never have chosen to give up our time at Franciscan in order to have no debt.  It was hard, but it was so so good.

First dance of many many more

22 comments:

  1. I don't have a real reaction comment other than to say thank you for writing this, I learned a lot, have some things to ponder (about how our family will view paying for college especially) and I just really appreciate you for taking the time to write this up.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Paying for college was always something I worried about, but as long as your kids work and you can save a little, I think the rest works itself out.

      Delete
  2. We have one at Franciscan (a freshman), two at states schools right now, and one that graduated from a university that was "Catholic in name only." If I could do it over, I would send them all to a distinctly Catholic school - my first three children have been misled in such convincing ways! I just pray that they find their way to the Truth before it is too late. We do our best to teach but between their friends and the professors it feels like a losing battle.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Amy, I am so sorry to hear this. It's a tale we have heard from so many like-minded parents but just know that God loves your kids even more than you do and He's trying to get them back too!

      Delete
  3. Let me jump in about helping your kids figuring out the college game. (I'm sending my 7th off this year.)

    1) Don't go crazy visiting colleges unless your kid really wants something at a specific school. I think visiting a few colleges of different sizes and types (urban or rural, big or small) might help the student get a feel for what might be comfortable. But don't spend your entire vacations going only to colleges. They'll start looking the same after a bit!
    2) It's okay not to have a major before going to college. Unless the kid is really sure about being an engineer or nurse or something which has a very strict class selection, there's room for a student to explore. (Esp. at smaller liberal arts colleges.)
    3) Please don't let your child apply to too many colleges. The common app makes it easy to apply to many places, but why apply to schools you don't really want to go to? It's crazy that kids are encouraged to apply to 12+ schools.
    4) High school guidance counselors can be helpful or not - depends on the school. Many schools will have college fairs - those are good to go to. Listen to what other parents in your high school say.
    5) Be prepared for rather in depth financial questions if you are applying to some of the more elite school. They will even ask what types of cars you own....
    6) Don't let the kid take on too much debt, esp. if their intended major isn't going to lead to a secure job situation. Many schools have very similar programs, so if one school requires $10K of debt a year and another only needs $2K, go cheaper. It's really what the effort the kid expends at college and the opportunities they chose to pursue that leads to a great experience.

    Most importantly though, The kids who do best at college are those well rounded ones who have academics and activities and good work habits. Encourage good time management in high school, and let your child be responsible for their work.

    Sermon over!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great points, all of them. I wasn't going to talk about the college process because we're only doing it for the second time, but someone asked and I do remember feeling lost in the beginning. You have way more experience!!!

      Delete
  4. I enjoyed reading your perspective on all this. It's so easy to say "absolutely no debt ever" but I like your more nuanced way of thinking about it.

    On a different note, how did you guys like living in Dayton? We were there for 3 years and I feel like I've found a long lost relative when I hear someone else used to live there. (In the city, not the university.)

    ReplyDelete
  5. My kiddo is still quite a few years away from college (if that is the right path for her), but I read every word of this post with such interest. Your college experience sounds wonderful as well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. (if that is the right path for her) is exactly right. I do feel like kids feel pressure to go to college and they don't even know what they want, it's hard to know what's best.

      Delete
  6. Thank you so much for sharing all this!

    ReplyDelete
  7. I've no children. I went to public schools in a small poor town, then a Lutheran liberal arts university [undergrad] then a Catholic university [grad school]. From these experiences I feel like I got a well-rounded education both in the formal book learning sense + spiritual guidance-- and an education in the realities of life.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I love the retro photo of you and Phil. So sweet. The kid pic is beautiful.

    How great that you've had a good experience with Catholic school. Coach and I went to Catholic school all the way through our education. We sent our kids to Catholic grade school until the cost became prohibitive. Unfortunately, we didn't have such a great experience with our kids' Catholic school. I attribute some of Lad's issues to the way he was treated at our school. I have a lot of guilt for leaving him in that environment. Fortunately, our kids receive an excellent education from our public school system and we work to instill our Catholic values in them. We also feel like they are prepared for the real world and they're equipped at standing up for what they believe in.

    In terms of college acceptances and grades, Molly had excellent grades - but she would not've gotten into Notre Dame without her leadership qualities and her extra currircular invovlement.

    My suggestion to anyone with young kids is to start investing for college now. Our kids were blessed to have college or investment accounts since they were born. My folks and my grandparents contributed to these accounts in a significant way over the years. My kids also caddy a few years before a work permit would be allowed. They work hard and earn mountains of money at the age of 13 and get paid in cash. They are fortunate to be borrowing very little, or in some cases nothing at all.

    I'm glad you are happy with your career path. I cannot say the same. I held down the fort while Coach got his fellowship and his doctorate in physical therapy. He has a lot of ABCs after his name. If I'd have been on the ball more, I think I would've tried to do online classes in order to get my teaching certificate. I do like that my daycare has allowed me to be home during the day.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not saying that I love being an accountant - haha - it's boring! But I do like that I have some flexibility and can make money to help provide. I wish Phil got his PhD just so he could be Dr. Phil ;)

      Delete
  9. Thank you for answering my nosy questions and for all the other parenting insights. I am so impressed at how much thought and care you and your husband have put in to your decisions and parenting practices. I still feel like we are going by the seat of our pants daily, though i know we need to do things differently. Our kids are getting older and we need to plan for these things now! You are so right that the education from a good college is worth more than just the cost of the tuition. And finding your spouse is beyond price! You certainly help me see how the cost can be manageable for a normal family.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think we are hyper aware of education because we both work in schools. But yes, it is manageable for a normal family!!

      Delete
  10. This was really helpful, thanks for taking the time to post.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're welcome Katie, hope all of your bambinos are doing well!

      Delete
  11. Hi! I so appreciate your thoughts about Catholic school, colleges, etc. If you are still taking questions/ topic ideas, now that you’ve got all these teens, could you talk about how you & Phil handle dating? Are you allowing it in high school? Group dates? Going steady? Are your kids even interested? Thank you!!!

    ReplyDelete

Talk to me...